silverdreams
Avatar Kyoshi
Opposites are confusing...
Posts: 1,383
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Post by silverdreams on Jun 22, 2006 15:34:14 GMT -5
that definatley deserves karma, daydream :3
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Post by Amira on Jun 22, 2006 15:36:10 GMT -5
See that's what I can never get...people have brought up that it's great the Toph basically treated Aang like dirt (no pun intended) because it would toughen up his personality and change him. It did change him. It basically shattered his confidence. It had the exact opposite effect. What got him through it was Katara's explaination of working with opposite elements and having to protect Sokka. He didn't yell at Toph at the end because he was thinking like an earthbender, he did it because she put him and Sokka at risk and he was angry about it (something his done before whenever one of his friends has been put into unnecessary danger). And he didn't battle the beast with earthbending, he did it with what he knew, airbending.
I think his joy in managing a little earthbending will be short lived. I think he and Toph will once again clash and I think she will once again put him in danger of losing his confidence in himself.
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femaleairbender
Blue Spirit
Just a fool to believe I have anything she needs...She's like the wind...
Posts: 2,165
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Post by femaleairbender on Jun 22, 2006 15:54:40 GMT -5
The necklace scene was not Zuko being seductive. He was threatening and intimidating. It was just in a voice that has so far done nothing except to make fan girls drool. I agree with you on that. I'd also like to add that if Zutarians think the way Zuko's voice lowered to Katara is a hint he likes her, then they must think that Zuko is gay because he DID lower his voice to Aang when Aang got back from the Spirit World in "The Siege of the North, Part 2". I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just adding my two copper pieces.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 15:54:45 GMT -5
I've said this so many times before: if Aang has to think like an earthbender than Toph needs to think like an airbender because she's teaching one. Maybe then she will understnad him a bit more. I.love.this.quote. Awesom daydream11! xD And I like what you have stated as well amiraelizabeth.x3 I think Toph likes to be in control; in charge. That's fine, but she should learn, I think, that you can't control and change people as much as you want. Half the fun can be accepting them as they are. Toph has a different teaching method- and that's not to say she isn't a good teacher, but it would be nice if, in upcoming episodes, she tries to understand Aang a bit better as he has to understand her. I also kind of feel she was a bit tough on him in the beginning, instead of gradually getting harder. But it's her different style. *Shrugs* Although I would like another/a teacher who explains a lot more about the history of certain moves. That would be awesom. :-D Someone who...(Ex: This new move/old move helped in the battle of/helped me run from a bear). Maybe someone similar to Gyatsu, in that they have a sense of humor. xD I think until Aang and Toph can embrace their differences and similarities whole-heartedly then it will be difficult to have a great friendship or relationship. But they've just come together and do have time, of course. -_- Edit: Actually, what may have unsettled me most was Tophs lack of willing to change her style of teaching, even though it wasn't working on Aang. -_- It seemed hard for her- as a teacher, to change her approach for the benifit of the student; Aang.
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daydream11
penguin
"I love you, Bolin! AHHHHH!!!"
Posts: 2
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Post by daydream11 on Jun 22, 2006 16:11:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the karma, silver. And I love what you said Icey, and you too Amira.
It's not so much her teaching style that gets me, but the way she goes about doing it. She yells, she screams, she bullies him and then expects him to get it right. If she needs to be her normal self if teaching, fine, but actually degrading him to a lower status because he messed up is unacceptable in my eyes. She should try to see things from Aang's POV before she does anything. It'll go better that way. And she should not control him, only because it would backfire eventually. And she really shouldn't change him, but instead enchance what he already has. Two very different things.
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Post by Mashnii on Jun 22, 2006 16:14:40 GMT -5
Well thank you to those that welcomed me. I'm glad you weren't mad about that huge post Ok...and now I shall defend Zutara: Yes. I know that. Most people are very respectful on both sides, and I have friends on both sides. But I don't think that we us you bashing for evidence. That whole stupid SPAR thing was long ago, but it was anooying. People were just mentioning it because it was the Katangs who started that type of thing, not the Zutarists. Actually they are. What do you expect Zuko to do in that situation? Say, "Oh yes, Katara, I would love you to help." No. He has an enormous ego and still has that pride. He won't let anyone help him, especially his enemy. Even if it means Iroh's life. Personality wise they're pretty much a like. Element wise they're opposties. They're not just the opposties attract thing because that's just their elements. They have a lot in common actually. And why don't they exhibit those traits? And what, may I ask, are those specific traits? Fire and water do balance each other out. But what you said is alos true. If they are used against each other, then they will consume and destroy each other. I know that...but I was pointing out that they are aware of the fandom behind the show. Interesting...So if we know that Katang isn't a curve ball, and you say Zutara isn't either, then what is? Certainly not Maiko or Soko. I think that we've already wheedled out the curve ball, or they have something truly incredible in the works. Maybe it is Zutara, but we don't think so because they said "expect the unepxected" and what about the people who don't participate in all this debating and fanfiction? They certainly don't expect Zutara. So that ones still in the air. You didn't get the gist of my age point. I know that Katang and Zutara have the same age difference, but I was trying to point out that the Katang is younger than Zutara. I really don't care who's older in the relationship, girl or guy, whatever. But something happening between Aang and Katara would be very minute since they're still very young. Now Zutara is pretty young, but they're a little bit closer to the marrying age in their time. Well I've always wanted to know. If they're not together or anything, how are they going to balance each other out? Toph and Aang balance each other out, and they're friends. Something can happen between them. Their elements are not restraining them. No, you don't know that. People just atomatically assume that their relationship would be all passionate and hot (which I would like to a certain extent) but what if it's not? And if it is, who says it'll be that way the whole time? They'll need to slow down every once in a while. And I really don't think it'd be short lived. No. Uh...Katara is basically taking care of three people already. Aang, Sokka, and Toph all lean on her in a certain way. With Aang she'd have to support him somwhat, as well as if she was with Zuko. You're making Katara to look as if she can handle anything. She needs support once in a while. If she can't lean on Aang or Zuko then she can't have either. Ah. Well now as we've seen anything can happen, so I really don't know how to interprit (sp?) that anymore. What I've noticed is that a lot of Zutarians like Tong and and the Katangs don't. Tong is our alternate. We don't hate Aang. And we're not just pairing him off so Katara can be with Zuko. We like the pairing like you like Katang. Ok I'm done for now. And I hope this long post didn't irritate you. Just had to respond to them all! [glow=red,2,300]LunaChaos[/glow] Good post. Man, I like you! ;D Just three things... 1). Toph and Aang are not exactly friends. Toph is too immature, and couldn't handle it. Yes, it is because her parents were too overprotective, but Toph is handling it the wrong way, which makes her immature. Also, Toph is naturally strong-willed; when she was teaching Aang in "Bitter Work", her true colors showed; Aang wouldn't be able to handle it. Katara, on the other hand, at least understands him. 2). It would be short lived because even though Katara would support Zuko, he wouldn't support her. He's a head-strong person, who will always need encouragement, but think about it: would Zuko really be the comforting type when Katara cries? I don't think so. He's feel somewhat uncomfortable. 3). What I have to say is basically this: the elements and Yin and Yang are not going to control Katara's, Zuko's, or Aang's future. It all depends on their personality: nothing else. They'll each have their own journeys in life, falling in and out of love, but just because they might be from contrasting nations doesn't mean their going to get married. Everything in that world is in a balance, but that doesn't mean that love depend on it.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Jun 22, 2006 16:39:02 GMT -5
What I've noticed is that a lot of Zutarians like Tong and and the Katangs don't. Tong is our alternate. We don't hate Aang. And we're not just pairing him off so Katara can be with Zuko. We like the pairing like you like Katang. Ok I'm done for now. And I hope this long post didn't irritate you. Just had to respond to them all! Whoa. That's generalizing: 'And the Kataangs don't'. SOME Kataangs don't like Toph. Never will it be all if there is even one Kataang person who likes her. It may be unsettling, but I actually do believe a lot of Zutarians don't care for Aang. Not all- just a lot of the ones I have seen. It may come from so many Aang discussions somehow ending with Zuko in an Aang discussion thread, or a lot of Zuko discussions in general, but I sometimes wonder if the Zutarians who do ship Tophaang do care for Aang. That is in general. I think that mainly comes, as well, from this nagging doubt in my head that a good portion of Zutarians don't even like Aang. I'm sure someone who reads this will want to reply along the lines of: "Just because we like Zutara and care deeply for Zuko doesn't mean we don't care for Aang." But in my experience, a good portion of Zutarians have barely even talked about Aang! So how the bloody heck am I supposed to tell you even acknoweledge his *lovely* exsistence? To which one could reply: "Just because we don't talk about him so much doesn't mean we don't like him..You Icey!" Sure, but I have barely seen-or can't ever really recall a good protion of Zutarians in several of the Avatar forums I am in, ever discuss: Aangs happiness, how great he can be, how great he can not be and how it helps him grow- or even how hard he is trying just as much *in my opinion* as Zuko. I rarely see that. And I swear, that's one thing that ticks me off more than anything nearly. In my experience, many of the other shippings talk about all the characters in general. And I will Admit how I rarely see Kataangs discuss the greatness of Zuko or his personality, but I have at least seen it enough to know they like him enough. I know this sounds bitter, and weird that I replied in a conversation mode. O.0 But a lack of...geniuine caring is the vibe I feel from Tophaang. It could be great, it could. But I wonder, even if a shipper of it is not Zutarian, do they also care about Aang? If they aren't thinking more of Toph because they may enjoy her more...? Dudes, I mean no offense. I hope no one blasts me, I'm just telling you the vibe I get from it. That's all. Forgive me.^^;
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Post by Mashnii on Jun 22, 2006 16:49:40 GMT -5
What I've noticed is that a lot of Zutarians like Tong and and the Katangs don't. Tong is our alternate. We don't hate Aang. And we're not just pairing him off so Katara can be with Zuko. We like the pairing like you like Katang. Ok I'm done for now. And I hope this long post didn't irritate you. Just had to respond to them all! Whoa. That's generalizing: 'And the Kataangs don't. SOME Kataangs don't like Toph. Never will it be all if there is even one person who likes her. It may be unsettling, but I actually do believe a lot of Zutarians don't care for Aang. Not all- just a lot of the ones I have seen. It may come from so many Aang discussions someone ending with Zuko in an Aang discussion thread, or a lot of Zuko dsicussions in general but I sometimes wonder if the Zutarians who do ship Tophaang do care for Aang. That is in general. I think that mainly comes, as well, from this nagging doubt in my head that a good portion of Zutarians even like Aang. I'm sure someone who reads this will want to reply along the lines of: "Just because we like Zutara and care deeply for Zuko doesn't mean we don't care for Aang." But in my experience, a good portion of Zutarians have barely even talked about Aang! So how the bloody heck am I supposed to tell you even acknoweledge his *lovely* exsistence? To which one could reply: "Just because we don't talke about him so much doesn't mean we don't like him..You Icey!" Sure, but I have barely seen-or can't ever really recall a good protion of Zutarians in several of the Avatar forums I am in ever discuss Aanga happiness, how great he can be, how great he can not be and how it helps him grow- or even how hard he is trying, just as much *in my opinion* as Zuko. I really see that. And I swear, that's one thing that ticks me off more than anything nearly. In my experience, many of the other shippings talk about all the characters in general. And I will Admit how I rarely see Kataangs discuss the greatness of Zuko or his personality, but I have at least seen it enough to know they like him enough. I know this sounds bitter, and weird that I replied in a conversation mode. O.0 But a lack of...geniuine caring is the vibe I feel from Tophaang. It could be great, it could. But I wonder, even if a shipper of it is not Zutarian, do they also care about Aang? If they aren't thinking more of Toph because they may enjoy her more...? Dudes, I mean no offense. I hope no one blasts me, I'm just telling you the vibe I get from it. That's all. Forgive me.^^; Oh, no, that's a good post!
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Post by Amira on Jun 22, 2006 16:55:32 GMT -5
^^Dear, we could never blast you.
This fandom has a case of Zukoitis. You can see it in fanfics, fan art, even on Wikipedia (which disappointed me with its summary of "The Storm." One short paragraph dedicated to Aang's past and 3-4 longer more indepth ones dedicated to Zuko).
Honestly, the fandom has sort of warped Zuko into this sort of sex symbol of fire and passion and quite frankly all I see is a poor suffering boy who has serious issues to work through and is trying to grow beyond this image his father painted of him.
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Post by Mashnii on Jun 22, 2006 16:57:26 GMT -5
^^Dear, we could never blast you. This fandom has a case of Zukoitis. You can see it in fanfics, fan art, even on Wikipedia (which disappointed me with its summary of "The Storm." One short paragraph dedicated to Aang's past and 3-4 longer more indepth ones dedicated to Zuko). Honestly, the fandom has sort of warped Zuko into this sort of sex symbol of fire and passion and quite frankly all I see is a poor suffering boy who has serious issues to work through and is trying to grow beyond this image his father painted of him. Same here. I see Zuko and Aang as both have equally hard pasts, except Aang handles it better.
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Post by Amira on Jun 22, 2006 17:02:45 GMT -5
^^Dear, we could never blast you. This fandom has a case of Zukoitis. You can see it in fanfics, fan art, even on Wikipedia (which disappointed me with its summary of "The Storm." One short paragraph dedicated to Aang's past and 3-4 longer more indepth ones dedicated to Zuko). Honestly, the fandom has sort of warped Zuko into this sort of sex symbol of fire and passion and quite frankly all I see is a poor suffering boy who has serious issues to work through and is trying to grow beyond this image his father painted of him. Same here. I see Zuko and Aang as both have equally hard pasts, except Aang handles it better. Which points to Aang's level of maturity. I think it is far easier for people to assume that because he's 12-13 and a bit carefree, that he's immature. It's a lot harder for people to imagine someone of that age being mature beyond their years. Especially if it means he might be more mature than the resident sexy god of brooding princeliness.
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 22, 2006 18:40:54 GMT -5
Hey man I agree. Jeeze I'm so freakin annoyed with everyone so obsessed with Zuko! I love him and all, but he's not so much better than all of the other characters. When did this fandom become so consumed and caught up with Zuko? Ah...it's stupid to answer your own questions but here I go ;D He's had a lot of changes. He's goign through so much more pain than them all at the moment. Him and Aang both have frightening pasts, but Zuko's is out in the open at the moment. People just don't realize it, especailly those fangirls who do nothing but sit at their tvs waving their Zuko Flags the entire duration of the episode. It's amazing how much depth these characters have. It's a nick. cartoon and there's so much put into it. Some peopel just don't take note of that...it is annoying. It's not often a Zutara shipper announces they're annoyed that people love Zuko so much About Toph and Aang. They just don't plain understand each other. They're twelve years old, both immature (though Aang shows frightening amounts of maturity at times that defy his age) and they aren't taking the time to get closer. Right now they just consider each other as student and teacher, but I believe that they will become firends soon. What some people have been speculating about (not here) is that there's going to be something important in the future that deals with Toph, other than her being his teacher. I think it was said that the guy of the swamp said that they see people they love or lost. For Katara and Sokka it was both. But the man also tells Aang that it could be someone you are going to meet. Now why would they show Toph? He could have seen anyone, say the Boulder or Azula, in that vision. What I think is that he's going to have a special, emotional bond with her sometime in the furture. Well that could be true to some extent. When people are talking about their favorite pairing, they generally don't go into discussion about the other characters. They might skim it like "Oh Aang was really good in that eppy" or whatever, but when people are talking about their fav. pairing they don't normally go off and talk about the other characters in great depth. So it's not just Aang, it's the rest of the characters too. And I bet when Katangs are talking about how much Katara and Aang "belong together" (not mocking you) they won't just start a random conversation about Zuko. Well, unless a fangirl is in there and iterrupts ;D Yes, I want to agree, but I'm hesitant. ;D However, Zuko has a lot of inner turmoil he needs to deal with, and it's building and overwhelming him, so maybe that's why it appears he's not handling it too well. He'll get over it, I'm sure. hehe thanks a bunch [glow=red,2,300]LunaChaos[/glow]
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Post by Mashnii on Jun 22, 2006 18:44:54 GMT -5
You're welcome!
But I think that Zuko actually has fangirls because, not only is he the, ahem, "super-uber-sexy-incarnate", he has a bad past. It makes people feel sorry for him; plus, he's supposed to be playing the angst role.
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Post by lunachaos on Jun 22, 2006 18:52:06 GMT -5
Yeah that makes sense.
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Post by almighty on Jun 22, 2006 18:58:37 GMT -5
o.O I wanted to post a response, but everyone pretty much covered it.
However, I would have to say this:
As much as people believe, or want to believe, that opposites attract, fact is, they normally don't. Let's take this fandom for example, Kataangs and Zutarians don't necessarily get along. Admit it. They don't have the same view point and believe in two entirely different things. I don't care about exceptions right now because this is the majority of the fandom. Anyway, Katara and Zuko believe in two separate viewpoints, not to mention they don't share any similarties in beliefs. They lost one parent. So what? Sokka lost his mother too so does that mean he might be perfect for Zuko just because of that one similarity? Face it, this is war and everyone has lost something.
Now, as for the Zuko obsessed fandom...
I have to admit that I am not a Zuko fangirl. Sure, I like his character and how much he adds to the story, however, I just hate it when people say that Zuko has such a horrific past. Guess what? Aang has one too. He was dumped with the duty of the Avatar, a duty that he realize when he was just 12. His entire race was killed off, not to mention the person he loves the most. The only creatures that can possibly understand Aang's pain is Momo and Appa, but they can't talk to him.
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