| Author | Topic: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theories (Read 6,799 times) |
lunauc Yue
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Joined: Sept 2006 Posts: 664 Karma: 93 |  | The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theories « Thread Started on Jan 14, 2007, 7:39pm » | |
I offer first and foremost, this modest gathering of theories and observations is not meant to question, debase or in anyway bash the ships which others enjoy. It is simply an explanation of how the TophAang ship can be presumed a valid prediction, regardless of whether or not it is to became canon fact. Please do not stop reading at this point simply because you are not a Taang/Tophaang shipper. I would like as many varied responses and even debates as I can get. I figured since there had been several threads in the Relationships board questioning why anyone would ship Taang, it would be a fair proposal to offer some of the Taang Theories here to be reviewed and responded to, rather than leaving them in the Tophaang thread, where only the like minded bother to read it. So, regardless of your chosen ship, please, read, think it over and respond. Now on to the theories!
My inspiration to write this post, began with reading this one: http://community.livejournal.com/aang_toph/28465.html#cutid1
To summarize, it describes the similarities between scenes in Siege of the North, during Aang's visit to the spirit world, and The Swamp. In SotN, Aang finds himself in a swamp which seems dead, brown, murky and silent. There Roku instructs him to visit Koh, the Facestealer, who once stole the face of one the Avatar loved in a previous life. Koh lives in a giant dead tree, reminiscent of the great tree in the Swamp. Though this one is dead. Koh is a creature whos apparently favored face is that of a noe mask. He speaks of his former run in with the Avatar and the loved one stolen from him with Aang. In the Swamp, Aang comes to the great tree and once mroe meets a monster, the vine puppet, who also wears a mask. And when they speak of their visions in the swamp, Hue explains, "In the swamp we see visions of people we’ve lost, people we loved… folks we think are gone. But the swamp tells us they’re not. We’re still connected to’em. Time is an illusion and so is death."
This prompted a theory that Toph either represented or was the reincarnation of the love whom the Avatar lost to Koh. I though myself that this was a wholly unfounded idea. Yet one more bit of evidence, not mentioned in that post, caught my attention. In both episodes, before Aang goes to the trees, he has a chase scene. When I made this realization, I was prompted to examine this theory. In the Swamp, Aang chases Toph's image. She's laughing and playful, and the swamp is green and alive. In the Siege of the North, Aang is prompted to follow a glowing orb. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=wJVtLdTfzWM) The Orb is mostly white, though fringed in a greenish gray hue, very similar to Toph's coloration in the Swamp vision, or more curiously the color of her eyes. In both scenes the phantom he follows gets away, and chronologically they both fit in before Aang goes to the tree. But what grabs my attention most about it, is that there seems to be almost no reason for the orb scene. On an apparent whim, Aang is told to follow the orb and he does so, but never catches it. As soon as he sees Roku's reflection in the water he lets it go. Symbollically, Orbs represent spirits or ghosts. One would figure the spirit world would be full of them. However, Aang only encounters the one, as if it saught him out. Here's where the theory begins to get curiuos. Since the only dead person mentioned in the episode is the lost love Koh mentions to Aang at the tree, it is possible that the spirit orb is meant to represent this lost love. If that is true, then equilaterally for Hue at the tree in the Swamp to speak of lost loved ones and Aang to have encountered Toph's image in the swamp would be relating her to the lost love of the Avatar.
We can also tie in a couple other Taang theories based on the happenings of these two episodes. For instance, the 'Opposites Attract' theory, though I almost regret bringing it up. I am not a fan of this defense for the personal opinion that it sounds like a cop out for people who can't come up with a better excuse. However, it is true that the writers of the show use the idea of yin and yang, balance of nature and such quite often. Thus, we cannot put it past them that it may be a factor in deciding how the ships will turn out. In SotN, Aang enters the spirit world trying to find the identities of moon and ocean, Tui and La. They are an obvious representation of the Yin and Yang. And while this does not seem connected to Taang, I propose a simple idea. In the Swamp, Aang is also looking for something, the identity of his earthbending teacher. Though he does not enter the swamp purposely seeking this knowledge, he finds it, and possible the identity for the completion of his own yin and yang.
Think that sounds crazy? Try this one.
The Momo Connection: It was a theory I had a long while back, revolving around the fact that ever since Toph join the group, whenever Momo is not seen with Aang, he's usually hanging around Toph. Thus the lemur becomes a subtle silent connection between the two. But after watching the Siege of the North again, to investigate my orb theory, it occurs to me that the one who told Aang to follow the orb was a white furred primate spirit, sitting in a ruined little shrine atop a mound. Aang met the white furred lemur in the ruins of the air temple, which rests atop a mountain. Coincidence?
Most likely...
However, the ape spirit also bears a resemblance to Guru Pathikk, the one who told Aang to 'let go' of Katara. Coincidence?!
Yeah, probably... but I thought I'd offer it for others to review my perception.
Anyhow, this has been a small offering of Taang theories, here for your perusal and comment. I do not declare that these observations represent things purposely written into the show to foreshadow Taang, just possibilities. Thank you for reading, and please, be fair.
| Disclaimer: Whatever I just said in the above post should in no way be misconstrued as a threat to your way of thinking. I simply express my ideas in a free form and open manner for your perusal. Please read, thinks it over, and don't chop my head off if you don't like it,
Thank you- Lunauc
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Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 4,279 Location: Dunder-Mifflin, Scranton Karma: 105 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #1 on Jan 14, 2007, 7:52pm » | |
Wow, that is a very nicely thought-out theory, I like it muchly. However, there is the suggestion that the past Avatar's lost love resembles Katara. I particularly like the Momo theory.
The only thing I would suggest is next time, don't say a monkey looks like a black guy.
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Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Male  Posts: 2,924 Location: Over the Hill and Far Away Karma: 316 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #2 on Jan 14, 2007, 7:58pm » | |
The one thing I've always wondered about the Aang/Toph pairing was this: We know the plot for the show was written out in all 3 seasons before they began making episodes, and it has been said that at first, the earthbending character who was supposed to join the gAang and be the teacher was a boy, but they changed it to Toph later.
I wonder how this would effect the liklihood of Aang and Toph pairing up.
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Joined: Sept 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 1,569 Location: Weirdsville, Population: Me Karma: 9 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #3 on Jan 14, 2007, 8:02pm » | |
I don't know what to say. Well thought out, but, being a Kataangian, I must say I can disagree a bit. Of course, there is still the chance that Taang will happen so...the creators just like to mess with us.
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lunauc Yue
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Joined: Sept 2006 Posts: 664 Karma: 93 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #4 on Jan 14, 2007, 8:02pm » | |
Quote:Wow, that is a very nicely thought-out theory, I like it muchly. However, there is the suggestion that the past Avatar's lost love resembles Katara. I particularly like the Momo theory.
The only thing I would suggest is next time, don't say a monkey looks like a black guy.  |
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I don't believe the guru is black. He's hindu, just deeply tanned from hanging around outside in his loincloth all day. 
As for the face resembling Katara, I don't really see it, but then again the male face Koh shows, which can be presumed as the face of the Avatar who loved her, looks nothing like Aang, so you can't put much emphasis on that I think. But like I said, this is nothing more than random theory at the moment.
| Disclaimer: Whatever I just said in the above post should in no way be misconstrued as a threat to your way of thinking. I simply express my ideas in a free form and open manner for your perusal. Please read, thinks it over, and don't chop my head off if you don't like it,
Thank you- Lunauc
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Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 4,772 Location: At the dark and light world Karma: 33 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #5 on Jan 14, 2007, 8:18pm » | |
Katara better not die.
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Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 5,452 Karma: 137 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #6 on Jan 14, 2007, 8:26pm » | |
wow lunauc, i love the theory. you went into more detail here than in the tophang thread. i love these theories, and i think it would make a great story.
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lunauc Yue
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Joined: Sept 2006 Posts: 664 Karma: 93 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #7 on Jan 14, 2007, 8:58pm » | |
Quote:The one thing I've always wondered about the Aang/Toph pairing was this: We know the plot for the show was written out in all 3 seasons before they began making episodes, and it has been said that at first, the earthbending character who was supposed to join the gAang and be the teacher was a boy, but they changed it to Toph later.
I wonder how this would effect the liklihood of Aang and Toph pairing up. |
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The question is when was the change decided? After all, Toph was introduced early in season two and Siege of the North was the last episode of season one. So, even if in the beginning they were considering a boy. They may have decided on the switch before Siege of the North rolled around. And then we wonder, why change it?
| Disclaimer: Whatever I just said in the above post should in no way be misconstrued as a threat to your way of thinking. I simply express my ideas in a free form and open manner for your perusal. Please read, thinks it over, and don't chop my head off if you don't like it,
Thank you- Lunauc
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Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 5,452 Karma: 137 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #8 on Jan 14, 2007, 9:05pm » | |
yiceman and lunauc, you both make good points. i agree with you lunauc. why would they change it? umm i also haven't figured out where people heard that toph was supposed to be a guy from .
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machina Toph
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Joined: Sept 2006 Posts: 164 Karma: 39 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #9 on Jan 14, 2007, 9:26pm » | |
Quote: As for the face resembling Katara, I don't really see it |
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If we're being technical, the face Koh showed Aang physically resembles Ursa or Azula more than Katara imho, but as you were getting at regarding reincarnation and physical apperance...
Quote:| but then again the male face Koh shows, which can be presumed as the face of the Avatar who loved her, looks nothing like Aang |
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I'm not sure we can be absolutely certain that was the face of that past Avatar Koh was talking about (even if I do think it was heavily implied), however, just looking at the other Avatars we know, Kyoshi and Roku, Aang looks nothing like either of them. So reincarnation and physical appearance don't really go hand-in-hand as far as "Avatar" seems to be concerned. Not negating it as possible factor, but we haven't been given anything concrete linking it to the storyline.
Aang did, however, recognize Roku right away when faced with the many Avatar statues in the Southern Air Temple. Being the Avatar just before him, Aang seems to be closer to Roku (and Kyoshi) than any of the others. So, that Avatar (or his memories... or loves) that existed 800/900 years ago Koh spoke of wouldn't be as close to Aang, but it's not impossible for him to reach. As they are all each other (but yet not each other either). That, amongst other things, implies something deeper the Avatars share amongst each other, far beyond physical appearance.
Quote:The one thing I've always wondered about the Aang/Toph pairing was this: We know the plot for the show was written out in all 3 seasons before they began making episodes, and it has been said that at first, the earthbending character who was supposed to join the gAang and be the teacher was a boy, but they changed it to Toph later.
I wonder how this would effect the liklihood of Aang and Toph pairing up. |
| I'm not sure it effects it one way or another. If you look at the original pilot for the series, Avatar State is presented very differently in regards to Aang's use of it and the dramatic impact on his character. In the pilot it was more like this simplistic power boost. It's something Aang was consciously aware of and could completely control and access. However, it turned into something much richer and dramatically layered in the actual series. In essence, it still is a power boost, but definitely not in the same way it was presented in the pilot. Basically, even as near as the pilot, things can change dramatically.
We also can't be certain the creators may or may not have planned a character like Toph all along, maybe to be a possible future romantic attachment to Aang (although not focusing on romance necessarily). They just decided to introduce her earlier and amalgamate this character into the story's primary Earthbender / the Earthbending teacher. Which would make sense. I realize the Yin-Yang as one of the bases for significant character pairing predictions (whether romantic or otherwise) makes some folks gag or scoff, but considering the importance of Yin-Yang/balance in the overall series and IF Toph is intended to play an even greater role in Aang's character development? I could understand the writers not only making this girl an Earthbender, thus the Yin to Aang's airbender Yang, but the Earthbender in the story. Toph not only trumps Bumi or Long Feng / the Dai Li in dramatic importance amongst the story's Earthbenders, but she seems to be more powerful than either of them.
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Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 4,279 Location: Dunder-Mifflin, Scranton Karma: 105 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #10 on Jan 14, 2007, 9:27pm » | |
Quote: Quote:Wow, that is a very nicely thought-out theory, I like it muchly. However, there is the suggestion that the past Avatar's lost love resembles Katara. I particularly like the Momo theory.
The only thing I would suggest is next time, don't say a monkey looks like a black guy.  |
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I don't believe the guru is black. He's hindu, just deeply tanned from hanging around outside in his loincloth all day.  |
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'Kay, fair point. Then again, a lot of people of any race don't make the discernment between black as in of African descent and black as in dark-skinned.
As for Toph orginally being a boy, that's very interesting, but perhaps they made the switch TO give Aang a more suitable love interest. They said at one point that they don't come on the boards too much for fear of being swayed- I don't think the plot is as rigid as most people think.
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Joined: May 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 2,562 Karma: 60 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #11 on Jan 14, 2007, 9:41pm » | |
I like this theory very much...I'd love it even more if the creators weren't having Aang gravitate towards KAAAAAATARA in every single danged episode, though...or better yet, if he gravitated towards Toph in the beginning/middle of Season 3.
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Joined: Nov 2006 Gender: Female  Posts: 4,772 Location: At the dark and light world Karma: 33 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #12 on Jan 14, 2007, 9:46pm » | |
I really want to see Katara's mother face.
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machina Toph
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Joined: Sept 2006 Posts: 164 Karma: 39 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #13 on Jan 14, 2007, 10:07pm » | |
Quote: However, the ape spirit also bears a resemblance to Guru Pathikk, the one who told Aang to 'let go' of Katara. Coincidence?! |
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I suppose something else interesting to note is Toph is the only one - apart from Aang (and Kuzon) - who has befriended a firebender in the gAang (Iroh, very often predicted as Aang's future firebending teacher, one of them anyway). Toph befriended a firebender and thus possibly will be a means ushering in the fire element into the gAang, more specifically Aang (who has a stigma towards the element). She (pretty symbolically, imo) opened the door to him and was friendly to Iroh in "The Crossroads of Destiny" while Aang and Sokka immediately were horrorstruck. While on the other hand, Katara is - indirectly - the reason why Aang developed his current stigma towards firebending / Fire (Aang was showing off and burned her in "The Deserter" and now he's reluctant to firebend). Toph welcomes that last element Aang needs, while Katara was the inadvertant block to it. As she seems to be - according to Guru Pathik - one of the things holding Aang back regarding opening the last chakra (Katara connected directly to Earthly attachments).
Guru Pathik also makes Aang face the fact that - although he's afraid of fire/bending (also represented in Aang's spirit guide Appa and Appa's fear of fire) - as the Avatar, he IS a firebender. Guru Pathik possibly functioning in the season 2 finale in a similar way Toph might in season three in trying to help Aang come to terms with firebending... and possibly, ultimately, coming to the point he's ready to open that last chakra (I'm guessing, in the series finale).
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lunauc Yue
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Joined: Sept 2006 Posts: 664 Karma: 93 |  | Re: The Swamp Vision Connection and Accompany Theo « Reply #14 on Jan 14, 2007, 10:39pm » | |
Quote: Quote: However, the ape spirit also bears a resemblance to Guru Pathikk, the one who told Aang to 'let go' of Katara. Coincidence?! |
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I suppose something else interesting to note is Toph is the only one - apart from Aang (and Kuzon) - who has befriended a firebender in the story (Iroh, very often predicted as Aang's future firebending teacher, one of them anyway). Toph befriended a firebender and thus possibly will be a means ushering in the fire element into the gAang, more specifically Aang (who has a stigma towards the element). She (pretty symbolically, imo) opened the door to him and was friendly to Iroh in "The Crossroads of Destiny" while Aang and Sokka immediately were horrorstruck. While on the other hand, Katara is - indirectly - the reason why Aang developed his current stigma towards firebending / Fire (Aang was showing off and burned her in "The Deserter" and now he's reluctant to firebend). Toph welcomes that last element Aang needs, while Katara was the inadvertant block to it. As she seems to be - according to Guru Pathik - one of the things holding Aang back regarding opening the last chakra (Katara connected directly to Earthly attachments).
Guru Pathik also makes Aang face the fact that - although he's afraid of fire/bending (also represented in Aang's spirit guide Appa and Appa's fear of fire) - as the Avatar, he IS a firebender. Guru Pathik possibly functioning in the season 2 finale in a similar way Toph might in season three in trying to help Aang come to terms with firebending... and possibly, ultimately, coming to the point he's ready to open that last chakra (I'm guessing, in the series finale). |
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Heh... and I thought my ideas were crazy.
Nah, just kidding. That's really an interesting theory. After all, with Zuko's latest betrayal, right after his tender moment with Katara in the cavern, she's bound to be all the more distrustful of firebenders. There may even be symbollic relevance in the Crossroads of Destiny. Generally she comes out of most crisis still looking herself, hair in place and all. But after the fight with Zuko and Azula, she comes out shaken and disheveled. It could be considered a representation of how her cool even demeanor will be shaken going into season three. Thus she'd be more of a hinderance than a help in Aang's developement and set him even further back in opening his chakras. After all, Katara makes a definitive impression on Aang and his feelings. Thus, if she is full of fears and anxieties, he'll never even reopen the first chakra. Toph may well be the one to bring them both around as she may insist on helping Iroh. So, you're theory may hold validity.
| Disclaimer: Whatever I just said in the above post should in no way be misconstrued as a threat to your way of thinking. I simply express my ideas in a free form and open manner for your perusal. Please read, thinks it over, and don't chop my head off if you don't like it,
Thank you- Lunauc
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