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Post by psylum on Aug 26, 2007 15:45:54 GMT -5
Wow, not a single thread on this most undisputidly canon of canon ships? *gasps*
Mike and Bryan hinted that this relationship started out much better than it ended up. The Ozai we know is bent on world domination like his father and grandfather before him, but is this a sign that in the past he was a much more loving and devoted husband and father? Did is own desire for his father's approval and power consume him? are we seeing signs of history repeat itself with Zuko?
Also, is there any Ursa/Ozai fanart or fics out there? This ship deserves some love!
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Post by luthien on Aug 26, 2007 15:48:58 GMT -5
Hmm... I think there are a few fics out there about them, I'll have to dig them up for you. But I admit this pairing is one that I'm curious about - I assume there was love there, and that Ozai wasn't a total jerk to Ursa - I'd love to see more about the nature of their relationship, as it's one of the points I've always been curious about.
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Post by Everwen45 on Aug 26, 2007 15:53:06 GMT -5
Well this is.. different. It's funny, they're are married couple and yet nobody ship it. I'm not so sure it was precisely a marriage full of love, it was arranged to begin with.
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femaleairbender
Blue Spirit
Just a fool to believe I have anything she needs...She's like the wind...
Posts: 2,165
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Post by femaleairbender on Aug 26, 2007 15:58:09 GMT -5
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Post by psylum on Aug 26, 2007 16:00:14 GMT -5
Mike and Bryan did hint that it started out much better than it ended. That's the interesting part about it, we know that Ozai was the reason it went South, but we don't know the circumstances behind the downward spiral.
My own theory is that Ozai became consumed by the need for his father's approval, leading to the scene that we saw in "Zuko Alone." A window of what could happen to Zuko if he doesn't start to realize that his father isn't good for the Fire Nation.
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xcgirl08
Sokka
Zutara/Taang shipper ahead
Posts: 147
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Post by xcgirl08 on Aug 26, 2007 19:06:59 GMT -5
Ohmigosh, I thought I was nuts to like this pairing!!
Yeah, I personally think that Ozai is not the one-dimensional EBIL VILLIAN!1!1 type. He may have been similar to Zuko when he was younger, in wanting to gain his father's approval.
(Also, Ozai may have harbored a lot of jealousy for Iroh, who appears to have been Azulon's favored child.)
In short, I think there's a lot between Ozai and Ursa that could be uncovered, and I hope we get some flashbacks.
Oh boy. Fan fic time....
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Ana
Metalbending Cop
Posts: 5,061
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Post by Ana on Aug 26, 2007 19:06:26 GMT -5
Ursai! <3 I think Ozai and Ursa really did love each other for some part of their marriage because of that quote from the creators (they said: "there was a time when it probably wasn't such a bad marriage. I think they probably started okay. Certainly better than it ended up.") and this screenshot. I just thought when Zuko asked Ozai where Ursa was that made him look...sad.
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Post by luthien on Aug 26, 2007 21:02:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I know it's crazily interpretive, but I saw Ozai's location - at the turtleduck pond - to mean he was thinking of Ursa in a somewhat wistful way, that he missed her. At least, that's sort of what I got. I want to believe there was love there at some point.
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Post by mahatista on Aug 26, 2007 21:09:06 GMT -5
I just posted something about this elsewhere. The assumption is that Ozai always hated Zuko (mainly because of his frown when Zuko steps up to do a kata for Azulon), but I wonder if he was just disappointed in his first-born son's lack of natural talent and knew he would embarrass him at that moment.
So when Ursa leaves, presumably because of Zuko, Ozai loses the woman he loves and thinks perhaps that Zuko is not worthy of such a sacrifice. Hence the later hate.
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Melis
Long Feng
hay baby wanna get away on my bison?
Posts: 3,293
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Post by Melis on Aug 26, 2007 21:24:48 GMT -5
Ozai/Ursa! I love this pairing! Fandom needs to appreciate it more.
I agree. That's exactly what I thought about Ozai ---> Zuko's relationship.
As for that screenshot, I loved that they included that. I never thought of Ozai as this Ultimate Evil as most people think of him (I'm not saying what he's done was right/good/justified either), and that that scene with him in the turtleduck pond, all quiet when Zuko asks her where his mother went, showed that he had some human qualities to him. In this instance, his love for Ursa. If she is alive, I'd love to see them meet up again, and I have this fannish theory that Ozai knows/found out where Ursa is, and keeps tabs on her on the low.
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Post by psylum on Aug 26, 2007 21:46:21 GMT -5
For some unknown reason I have the feeling that Ozai was a lot like Zuko when he was young, a really nice kid that just wanted to make his dad proud. Over time the demands his father put on him were just more and more corrupting until he became what he is today.
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Post by wildimagination on Aug 26, 2007 22:09:19 GMT -5
Well, I'm pretty sure there was love between those two at some point. *pokes Zuko and Azula. * I think later, though, it faded.
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Post by Revitalize Book on Aug 26, 2007 22:41:14 GMT -5
I am definetly all over this pairing. ;D I can't wait to see how this relationship plays out in the final season, and how it may or may not affect Aang or Zukos victory or outcome. In Zuko Alone I didn't catch Ursa do or say anything to imply that she disliked her husband. She didn't say or do anything to imply she loved him either though, that is true. Ozai in the turtle-duck pond location did imply some affection for Ursa to me, in return, so there does seem to be something on one side of this relationship, so far according to canon. I'm wondering how Ursas disappearance affected Ozai and Zukos relationship; if maybe one reason he might have been even harder with Zuko when he was older was because Zuko somehow plays into Ursa missing. Azulon said something to the degree of "you should suffer the misery of losing a first born". Maybe Ursa sacrificed herself for Zuko and thus spawned some resentment in Ozais heart. I can totally see Ursa smacking Ozai with some bitter glares if he ever picked at Zukos personality. Ozai: "Zuko is positively useless!" Ursa: *harsh glare* Ozai: "Let's try this over again." Years later... Ursa: "There is something wrong with Azula!" Ozai: *harsh glare* Ursa: "Fix her!" Ozai: "Fix Zuko- he's still useless!" Some time later... Azula: "Dad says you're useless dum dum." Zuko: "You obviously didn't wait for mom to get mad at him." **both hear manly shrieks from their parents room** Zuko: "Told you." I really just see Ursa having backbone, but knowing what to do. I wonder if Ursas closeness to Zuko and Ozais closeness to Azula put them a bit apart together at times? I'd really like more on Ursas thoughts on Azula and if she ever discussed them with Ozai. I do think Ursa loves Ozai and Ozai loves her, but as they continued to grow together...It really comes down to Ozais sudden thirst for power by less-than-noble means. There does seem to be love to me; it's just the current circumstances that have dimmed the obvious showing of it. I'm not even sure Ursa knew Ozais cunning for the throne; he may have hid it from her. I also want to know about Ursas grandparents. I guess they still aren't around, because if they were, couldn't Zuko have just gone to grandma or grandpa and said "where the heck is mom?" I wonder if Ozai consulted them after Ursa went missing if they are alive. LOL. I'm going off on wacky tangents. But I seriously love thinking and peicing together aspects of this couple, like a charm bracelet pressed in an open space, finally found. My brain is seriously ready to splatter all over this pairing, absorb information, than somehow come together again. By the way, what are Ursai fans called? Ursaiokes? Ursaiites? Ursaians? I have a soft spot for Ursains.
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Post by psylum on Aug 26, 2007 22:59:13 GMT -5
So in keeping with the theme of the Relationship board, this thread needs a catchy name...I'm thinking Royal Gardens? Royal Turtleduck Pond? I'm totally open to suggestions here.
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Post by mahatista on Aug 26, 2007 23:35:33 GMT -5
I thought it was also telling that Zuko refers to him as "Dad." It's so casual and speaks of a warmer relationship than we actually see. Later he and Azula refer to him as "Father" so maybe it was a kid thing, or an Ursa thing.
I keep thinking about the "he says she was born lucky. He says I was lucky to be born." quote of Zuko's from SotN. That's an obnoxious thing for a father to say. How would Ursa have reacted to something like that and did he say it after she was gone? We'll probably never know. People have read a lot into it, like Zuko was sickly or something, but it's actually a thing that's been said before. A saying. Still obnoxious, but it was probably just have been a general insult referring to Zuko's haplessness. Like "you're so pathetic I'm surprised you found your way out of your mother's womb." Kinda like that. It reminds me of something Tony Soprano might have said to his son at one time or another.
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